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	<title>Comments on: When Less Is More: The Upside of Paywalls and Delisting from Google</title>
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	<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2009/12/02/when-less-is-more-the-upside-of-paywalls-and-delisting-from-google/</link>
	<description>What&#039;s Hot &#38; What&#039;s Cooking in Scholarly Publishing - from the Society for Scholarly Publishing</description>
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		<title>By: The Upside of Paywalls Revisited &#8212; Now With Actual Data &#171; The Scholarly Kitchen</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2009/12/02/when-less-is-more-the-upside-of-paywalls-and-delisting-from-google/#comment-23828</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Upside of Paywalls Revisited &#8212; Now With Actual Data &#171; The Scholarly Kitchen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Nov 2010 09:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7223#comment-23828</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] December, I wrote an article about Rupert Murdoch&#8217;s plans to move his properties behind paywalls, under the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] December, I wrote an article about Rupert Murdoch&#8217;s plans to move his properties behind paywalls, under the [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Traffic Isn&#8217;t Revenue: Twitter and Ning Reach Different Crossroads &#171; The Scholarly Kitchen</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2009/12/02/when-less-is-more-the-upside-of-paywalls-and-delisting-from-google/#comment-10604</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Traffic Isn&#8217;t Revenue: Twitter and Ning Reach Different Crossroads &#171; The Scholarly Kitchen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 09:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7223#comment-10604</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] similar to the problem that news providers are facing, one that Rupert Murdoch understands perfectly, despite all the dot com er, Web 2.0 pundits who seem to know better.  If you have a product that [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] similar to the problem that news providers are facing, one that Rupert Murdoch understands perfectly, despite all the dot com er, Web 2.0 pundits who seem to know better.  If you have a product that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Who Controls Publisher Prices? Amazon Fires the First Shot, Then Forges a Bitter Truce &#171; The Scholarly Kitchen</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2009/12/02/when-less-is-more-the-upside-of-paywalls-and-delisting-from-google/#comment-7175</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Who Controls Publisher Prices? Amazon Fires the First Shot, Then Forges a Bitter Truce &#171; The Scholarly Kitchen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7223#comment-7175</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] These sorts of power struggles are going to be the dominant issue for content creators in the digital age.  Is the content the valuable thing? Or does the networked retailer who makes the content visible/sells the content get to call the shots?  Are music companies bigger than iTunes?  Does Google need newspapers more than newspapers need Google? [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] These sorts of power struggles are going to be the dominant issue for content creators in the digital age.  Is the content the valuable thing? Or does the networked retailer who makes the content visible/sells the content get to call the shots?  Are music companies bigger than iTunes?  Does Google need newspapers more than newspapers need Google? [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Some Memorable Dishes from the Kitchen in 2009 &#171; The Scholarly Kitchen</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2009/12/02/when-less-is-more-the-upside-of-paywalls-and-delisting-from-google/#comment-6187</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Some Memorable Dishes from the Kitchen in 2009 &#171; The Scholarly Kitchen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7223#comment-6187</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] When Less Is More: The Upside of Paywalls and Delisting from Google [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] When Less Is More: The Upside of Paywalls and Delisting from Google [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Gunn</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2009/12/02/when-less-is-more-the-upside-of-paywalls-and-delisting-from-google/#comment-5858</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mr. Gunn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7223#comment-5858</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think they could drop the whole &quot;get the scoop&quot; mentality and focus on telling better stories and putting things in context like only a journalist bathed in the news daily can do. Give some historical perspective or cultural background information, that sort of thing. 

Two sites I&#039;ve paid for, Metafilter and Flickr, provide useful examples.

Metafilter presents stories about news, sometimes timely, sometimes not, but always interesting, and the follow-on discussion is the best part.  What do you have to pay for? Not to read, but to participate and contribute. To count such interesting people among your peers.  It&#039;s totally worth it, no paywall needed.

Flickr is just a textbook example of the freemium model. Some sites would do well with this, too.  They could provide some material for free, and some resources for pay. Hasn&#039;t NPG been doing this for years?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think they could drop the whole &#8220;get the scoop&#8221; mentality and focus on telling better stories and putting things in context like only a journalist bathed in the news daily can do. Give some historical perspective or cultural background information, that sort of thing. </p>
<p>Two sites I&#8217;ve paid for, Metafilter and Flickr, provide useful examples.</p>
<p>Metafilter presents stories about news, sometimes timely, sometimes not, but always interesting, and the follow-on discussion is the best part.  What do you have to pay for? Not to read, but to participate and contribute. To count such interesting people among your peers.  It&#8217;s totally worth it, no paywall needed.</p>
<p>Flickr is just a textbook example of the freemium model. Some sites would do well with this, too.  They could provide some material for free, and some resources for pay. Hasn&#8217;t NPG been doing this for years?</p>
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		<title>By: David Crotty</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2009/12/02/when-less-is-more-the-upside-of-paywalls-and-delisting-from-google/#comment-5855</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Crotty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 12:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7223#comment-5855</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree--Murdoch is way off the mark on much of what he says.  His opinions on fair use, as one example, are completely bizarre.  In essence, this is a money grab on his part, an attempt to flip the balance of the search engine game to a more equal setting instead of the current state where the search engines have all the power and get all the revenue.  It&#039;s a smart move if he can pull it off, but much of what he&#039;s saying is just posturing in order to further this effort.

And creating a quality product that people are willing to pay for is the key to survival in the digital age.  Newspapers have dug their own grave by lowering quality and relying on wire reports so much so that they&#039;re all pretty much interchangeable.  Put one behind a paywall and it&#039;s easily replaced with the next one.  Scholarly journals at least have the advantage of having unique irreplaceable content.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree&#8211;Murdoch is way off the mark on much of what he says.  His opinions on fair use, as one example, are completely bizarre.  In essence, this is a money grab on his part, an attempt to flip the balance of the search engine game to a more equal setting instead of the current state where the search engines have all the power and get all the revenue.  It&#8217;s a smart move if he can pull it off, but much of what he&#8217;s saying is just posturing in order to further this effort.</p>
<p>And creating a quality product that people are willing to pay for is the key to survival in the digital age.  Newspapers have dug their own grave by lowering quality and relying on wire reports so much so that they&#8217;re all pretty much interchangeable.  Put one behind a paywall and it&#8217;s easily replaced with the next one.  Scholarly journals at least have the advantage of having unique irreplaceable content.</p>
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		<title>By: David Smith</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2009/12/02/when-less-is-more-the-upside-of-paywalls-and-delisting-from-google/#comment-5849</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 09:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7223#comment-5849</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First up, Murdoch is being... inconsistent with his views. Here&#039;s a breakdown of the Murdoch owned websites that do precisely what he is accusing Google and the others of doing: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091111/0049546883.shtml

Second point here is that I do not understand the noise over Google First Click update - Google previously said that for them to index paywall content, you 1) had to let them in and 2) had to let each landing page page be viewed by a user coming from Google. Their change is minor in that they have said that you can limit the number of inbound visits from one person in one day if you wish. I think you could have done that anyway by the way. They&#039;ve just been explicit about it. I think they are actually trying to say &quot;Um, all that inbound traffic we&#039;ve been sending you - perhaps you want to put a call to action up on your site when they arrive?&quot;. Some of us Scholarly publisher have been doing that for a while and it give useful data.

Especially for Scholarly Kitchen Readers I went to The Times (London), the Sun and the news of the World websites to look for subscription options... I did find an option for the Times (eventually - the lack of emphasis was notable) but couldn&#039;t find any options for the the other two. And (shudder) I did look. So much for that then. If Murdoch cannot be serious about trying to convert web visitors into print subscribers (he doesn&#039;t actually seem to offer a web subcription to the UK papers from what I can see) then his argument (such as it is holds no water whatesoever).

The problem with newspapers is simply stated and has been pointed out repeatedly by smart people for a while (and David, you&#039;ve quoted the point) - If you don&#039;t provide unique valuable content then you don&#039;t have a monopoly and economics dictates what happens to commodities... The sad truth is this, most content in a newspaper is of zero value. This is why you find them scattered on the floor of the tube in London. The message for publishers of scholarly content is this. Fight the perception that most Scholarly content is of zero value. You want to see innovation in newspapers? go look at the Guardians work with datasharing of their content. Monetizing the very thing that Murdoch is complaining about. 

Final thing: I watched the video of his interview (all 40mins). The comments you quoted about him being out of touch, are perceptive. It&#039;s an uncomfortable video to watch. Especially when he struggles to bring any organisation to his argument, or cannot recall the name of &quot;that video site&quot; (Youtube- where Murdoch owned organisations post video interviews of their boss).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First up, Murdoch is being&#8230; inconsistent with his views. Here&#8217;s a breakdown of the Murdoch owned websites that do precisely what he is accusing Google and the others of doing: <a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091111/0049546883.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091111/0049546883.shtml</a></p>
<p>Second point here is that I do not understand the noise over Google First Click update &#8211; Google previously said that for them to index paywall content, you 1) had to let them in and 2) had to let each landing page page be viewed by a user coming from Google. Their change is minor in that they have said that you can limit the number of inbound visits from one person in one day if you wish. I think you could have done that anyway by the way. They&#8217;ve just been explicit about it. I think they are actually trying to say &#8220;Um, all that inbound traffic we&#8217;ve been sending you &#8211; perhaps you want to put a call to action up on your site when they arrive?&#8221;. Some of us Scholarly publisher have been doing that for a while and it give useful data.</p>
<p>Especially for Scholarly Kitchen Readers I went to The Times (London), the Sun and the news of the World websites to look for subscription options&#8230; I did find an option for the Times (eventually &#8211; the lack of emphasis was notable) but couldn&#8217;t find any options for the the other two. And (shudder) I did look. So much for that then. If Murdoch cannot be serious about trying to convert web visitors into print subscribers (he doesn&#8217;t actually seem to offer a web subcription to the UK papers from what I can see) then his argument (such as it is holds no water whatesoever).</p>
<p>The problem with newspapers is simply stated and has been pointed out repeatedly by smart people for a while (and David, you&#8217;ve quoted the point) &#8211; If you don&#8217;t provide unique valuable content then you don&#8217;t have a monopoly and economics dictates what happens to commodities&#8230; The sad truth is this, most content in a newspaper is of zero value. This is why you find them scattered on the floor of the tube in London. The message for publishers of scholarly content is this. Fight the perception that most Scholarly content is of zero value. You want to see innovation in newspapers? go look at the Guardians work with datasharing of their content. Monetizing the very thing that Murdoch is complaining about. </p>
<p>Final thing: I watched the video of his interview (all 40mins). The comments you quoted about him being out of touch, are perceptive. It&#8217;s an uncomfortable video to watch. Especially when he struggles to bring any organisation to his argument, or cannot recall the name of &#8220;that video site&#8221; (Youtube- where Murdoch owned organisations post video interviews of their boss).</p>
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		<title>By: David Crotty</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2009/12/02/when-less-is-more-the-upside-of-paywalls-and-delisting-from-google/#comment-5837</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Crotty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 01:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7223#comment-5837</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But if your site is one like Fox News, or the NY Post, where you don&#039;t offer online subscriptions, what exactly are you selling those &quot;customers&quot;?  And if they see everything on the WSJ for free, what is the incentive to become a paying subscriber?

I do agree that the market is overloaded with news sources (the 24 hour news cycle has massively damaged quality) and we&#039;re likely to see a sharp reduction in the number of outlets, and in the cost of production from those outlets.  Either they find a way to do their job cheaper, or most of them disappear and the few left use the scarcity to drive a subscription-only model.  

And I&#039;m with you, enough threats, let&#039;s see some action, let&#039;s see if anyone can put a dent in Google&#039;s so far invincible armor.  It has to happen sooner or later....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But if your site is one like Fox News, or the NY Post, where you don&#8217;t offer online subscriptions, what exactly are you selling those &#8220;customers&#8221;?  And if they see everything on the WSJ for free, what is the incentive to become a paying subscriber?</p>
<p>I do agree that the market is overloaded with news sources (the 24 hour news cycle has massively damaged quality) and we&#8217;re likely to see a sharp reduction in the number of outlets, and in the cost of production from those outlets.  Either they find a way to do their job cheaper, or most of them disappear and the few left use the scarcity to drive a subscription-only model.  </p>
<p>And I&#8217;m with you, enough threats, let&#8217;s see some action, let&#8217;s see if anyone can put a dent in Google&#8217;s so far invincible armor.  It has to happen sooner or later&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Gunn</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2009/12/02/when-less-is-more-the-upside-of-paywalls-and-delisting-from-google/#comment-5836</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mr. Gunn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 01:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7223#comment-5836</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That kind of attitude from Murdoch is exactly why I hope they drop out and fail. They&#039;re not freeloaders, they&#039;re potential customers that they&#039;ll need to replace the current subscribers with. Goodwill determines to what extent they&#039;ll convert.

There&#039;s way more journalism being done than the market can support at the current profit levels. Something has to happen, and if Fox wants to give up their marketshare, it would make a lot of people very happy. They&#039;re not going to  all disappear, so I wouldn&#039;t worry too much about Google.

They&#039;ve been threatening this for almost a year now. Do it already!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That kind of attitude from Murdoch is exactly why I hope they drop out and fail. They&#8217;re not freeloaders, they&#8217;re potential customers that they&#8217;ll need to replace the current subscribers with. Goodwill determines to what extent they&#8217;ll convert.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s way more journalism being done than the market can support at the current profit levels. Something has to happen, and if Fox wants to give up their marketshare, it would make a lot of people very happy. They&#8217;re not going to  all disappear, so I wouldn&#8217;t worry too much about Google.</p>
<p>They&#8217;ve been threatening this for almost a year now. Do it already!</p>
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		<title>By: David Crotty</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2009/12/02/when-less-is-more-the-upside-of-paywalls-and-delisting-from-google/#comment-5834</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Crotty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7223#comment-5834</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re probably right, and we&#039;re due to see a winnowing of the field.  But if all the newspapers go away, what happens to Google News?  If all the scholarly journals go under, what happens to Google Scholar?  Isn&#039;t their some mutual interest here?

On the subject of news, by the way, Cuban has an article&lt;a href=&quot;http://blogmaverick.com/2009/11/09/rupert-murdoch-to-block-google-smart-twitter-has-changed-it-all/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; claiming that Google has already lost that battle&lt;/a&gt;--Twitter and Facebook are where people go for breaking news these days, not the glacially-paced Google.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re probably right, and we&#8217;re due to see a winnowing of the field.  But if all the newspapers go away, what happens to Google News?  If all the scholarly journals go under, what happens to Google Scholar?  Isn&#8217;t their some mutual interest here?</p>
<p>On the subject of news, by the way, Cuban has an article<a href="http://blogmaverick.com/2009/11/09/rupert-murdoch-to-block-google-smart-twitter-has-changed-it-all/" rel="nofollow"> claiming that Google has already lost that battle</a>&#8211;Twitter and Facebook are where people go for breaking news these days, not the glacially-paced Google.</p>
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