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	<title>Comments on: Going Legit: The Difficult Path from Piracy to Partnership</title>
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	<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2010/01/13/going-legit-the-difficult-path-from-piracy-to-symbiosis/</link>
	<description>What&#039;s Hot &#38; What&#039;s Cooking in Scholarly Publishing - from the Society for Scholarly Publishing</description>
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		<title>By: Radiohead Contemplates Digital Realities &#8212; Parallels for STM Publishing &#171; The Scholarly Kitchen</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2010/01/13/going-legit-the-difficult-path-from-piracy-to-symbiosis/#comment-22708</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Radiohead Contemplates Digital Realities &#8212; Parallels for STM Publishing &#171; The Scholarly Kitchen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Sep 2010 09:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7686#comment-22708</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] with aplomb by casual and organized approaches in the early days of broad digital usage (and you could argue that Mendeley is essentially a file-sharing technology). So, this is a parallel right off the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] with aplomb by casual and organized approaches in the early days of broad digital usage (and you could argue that Mendeley is essentially a file-sharing technology). So, this is a parallel right off the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BWG</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2010/01/13/going-legit-the-difficult-path-from-piracy-to-symbiosis/#comment-6855</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BWG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 23:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7686#comment-6855</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Zotero is also not a for-profit operation, which may cast a different light on its activities. As far as I know, it also freely offers API access to all of its user data, so it&#039;s clearly not seeking to monopolize or monetize that data&#039;s dissemination.

Contrast that approach with Mandelay&#039;s roach motel attitude to user data (one-way import of CiteULike and now 2collab). Coupled with their TOS&#039;s express prohibition of tinkering around, I see a troubling lack of concern about future access to their users&#039; data.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zotero is also not a for-profit operation, which may cast a different light on its activities. As far as I know, it also freely offers API access to all of its user data, so it&#8217;s clearly not seeking to monopolize or monetize that data&#8217;s dissemination.</p>
<p>Contrast that approach with Mandelay&#8217;s roach motel attitude to user data (one-way import of CiteULike and now 2collab). Coupled with their TOS&#8217;s express prohibition of tinkering around, I see a troubling lack of concern about future access to their users&#8217; data.</p>
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		<title>By: David Crotty</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2010/01/13/going-legit-the-difficult-path-from-piracy-to-symbiosis/#comment-6846</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Crotty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7686#comment-6846</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Online storage is a different issue from online sharing.  Many think that uploading legally purchased files to an online storage locker for personal use falls under fair use.  There is a lawsuit pending on this matter,&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20081002/0952372437.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; EMI is suing mp3tunes.com&lt;/a&gt; for copyright infringement for creating just such an online storage locker.  Stay tuned.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Online storage is a different issue from online sharing.  Many think that uploading legally purchased files to an online storage locker for personal use falls under fair use.  There is a lawsuit pending on this matter,<a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20081002/0952372437.shtml" rel="nofollow"> EMI is suing mp3tunes.com</a> for copyright infringement for creating just such an online storage locker.  Stay tuned.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Rusbridge</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2010/01/13/going-legit-the-difficult-path-from-piracy-to-symbiosis/#comment-6843</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Rusbridge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7686#comment-6843</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I saw a tweet today that Zotero was offering paid storage:

&quot;RT @bengoldacre: Zotero file storage has suddenly secretly appeared, $20 for 1gb, all my PDFs synced across any computer i use, with my refmanager, w00h00&quot;

which sounds like more of the same issue...!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw a tweet today that Zotero was offering paid storage:</p>
<p>&#8220;RT @bengoldacre: Zotero file storage has suddenly secretly appeared, $20 for 1gb, all my PDFs synced across any computer i use, with my refmanager, w00h00&#8243;</p>
<p>which sounds like more of the same issue&#8230;!</p>
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		<title>By: BWG</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2010/01/13/going-legit-the-difficult-path-from-piracy-to-symbiosis/#comment-6733</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BWG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7686#comment-6733</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course I&#039;m familiar with last.fm, but I think the analogy between research papers and music is flawed for the reasons others have already noted in these comments. Individuals buy music and sellers want to learn how to target those buyers. 

Individuals don&#039;t buy articles, just like they don&#039;t buy reference management software.  The bulk of these markets is institutional subscriptions (often together). 

Finally, it&#039;s difficult to believe that raising the group cap from 10 to 12 is going to justify paying. Maybe you&#039;ve been misled or you&#039;re leaving something out?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course I&#8217;m familiar with last.fm, but I think the analogy between research papers and music is flawed for the reasons others have already noted in these comments. Individuals buy music and sellers want to learn how to target those buyers. </p>
<p>Individuals don&#8217;t buy articles, just like they don&#8217;t buy reference management software.  The bulk of these markets is institutional subscriptions (often together). </p>
<p>Finally, it&#8217;s difficult to believe that raising the group cap from 10 to 12 is going to justify paying. Maybe you&#8217;ve been misled or you&#8217;re leaving something out?</p>
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		<title>By: David Crotty</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2010/01/13/going-legit-the-difficult-path-from-piracy-to-symbiosis/#comment-6731</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Crotty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 12:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7686#comment-6731</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While the situations aren&#039;t the same, supporting or condoning Mendeley does create a culture where such actions are acceptable, which is likely to lead to further abuses.

So far, publishers have indeed taken a wait and see attitude, given the lack of lawsuits.  But time is not on Mendeley&#039;s side.  They&#039;re the ones looking for traction and successful business models in a very crowded market.  They&#039;re the ones looking to partner with, and sell to publishers.  They&#039;re unlikely to see much success at either as long as they insist on including what you note is not an important part of their functionality.  The journals my company runs have direct links to upload paper information to Connotea.  Mendeley will never get such placement or links as long as they enable copyright infringement, no matter how limited.  Nor are we likely to purchase tracking statistics from them when many analytics packages are readily available from companies that pose no such threat.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the situations aren&#8217;t the same, supporting or condoning Mendeley does create a culture where such actions are acceptable, which is likely to lead to further abuses.</p>
<p>So far, publishers have indeed taken a wait and see attitude, given the lack of lawsuits.  But time is not on Mendeley&#8217;s side.  They&#8217;re the ones looking for traction and successful business models in a very crowded market.  They&#8217;re the ones looking to partner with, and sell to publishers.  They&#8217;re unlikely to see much success at either as long as they insist on including what you note is not an important part of their functionality.  The journals my company runs have direct links to upload paper information to Connotea.  Mendeley will never get such placement or links as long as they enable copyright infringement, no matter how limited.  Nor are we likely to purchase tracking statistics from them when many analytics packages are readily available from companies that pose no such threat.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Gunn</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2010/01/13/going-legit-the-difficult-path-from-piracy-to-symbiosis/#comment-6726</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mr. Gunn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7686#comment-6726</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David - I thought we both agreed that the comparison to mp3 filesharing doesn&#039;t work for the reasons you outlined above?

I honestly think you&#039;re making a much bigger deal out of this than it is, but since you don&#039;t appear inclined to agree that Mendeley would be a really poor vector for widespread filesharing (by design), I&#039;ll just have to step back and let time make the argument for me.

I wish I knew a way to ease your mind about this, but I think you&#039;ll gradually realize over time Mendeley is doing no harm.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David &#8211; I thought we both agreed that the comparison to mp3 filesharing doesn&#8217;t work for the reasons you outlined above?</p>
<p>I honestly think you&#8217;re making a much bigger deal out of this than it is, but since you don&#8217;t appear inclined to agree that Mendeley would be a really poor vector for widespread filesharing (by design), I&#8217;ll just have to step back and let time make the argument for me.</p>
<p>I wish I knew a way to ease your mind about this, but I think you&#8217;ll gradually realize over time Mendeley is doing no harm.</p>
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		<title>By: David Crotty</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2010/01/13/going-legit-the-difficult-path-from-piracy-to-symbiosis/#comment-6722</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Crotty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 02:43:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7686#comment-6722</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One could argue that&#039;s exactly the attitude taken by the music industry when Napster hit the scene.  Well, it&#039;s just some college kids sitting around their dorm rooms, really it&#039;s no threat to our business.  Let&#039;s not do anything about it until it&#039;s too late.

Also, since Mendeley is actively trying to partner with publishers, and as you note above, wants them as customers for its statistical reporting, it would seem to me that the onus is on them as far as proving they&#039;re a reliable group to work with.  There are lots and lots of reference managers out on the market, so why encourage one that has such potential to do damage?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One could argue that&#8217;s exactly the attitude taken by the music industry when Napster hit the scene.  Well, it&#8217;s just some college kids sitting around their dorm rooms, really it&#8217;s no threat to our business.  Let&#8217;s not do anything about it until it&#8217;s too late.</p>
<p>Also, since Mendeley is actively trying to partner with publishers, and as you note above, wants them as customers for its statistical reporting, it would seem to me that the onus is on them as far as proving they&#8217;re a reliable group to work with.  There are lots and lots of reference managers out on the market, so why encourage one that has such potential to do damage?</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Gunn</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2010/01/13/going-legit-the-difficult-path-from-piracy-to-symbiosis/#comment-6713</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mr. Gunn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7686#comment-6713</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While it is a minor part of the functionality, it doesn&#039;t appear to present any threat of abuse because of the limits placed on accounts.

Perhaps we could table this discussion until there&#039;s some credible evidence that it can and will be used in an infringing manner by a non-insignificant number of people? Removing a feature because of some future possibility that might not occur seems a little extreme.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While it is a minor part of the functionality, it doesn&#8217;t appear to present any threat of abuse because of the limits placed on accounts.</p>
<p>Perhaps we could table this discussion until there&#8217;s some credible evidence that it can and will be used in an infringing manner by a non-insignificant number of people? Removing a feature because of some future possibility that might not occur seems a little extreme.</p>
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		<title>By: David Crotty</title>
		<link>http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2010/01/13/going-legit-the-difficult-path-from-piracy-to-symbiosis/#comment-6712</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Crotty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 18:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/?p=7686#comment-6712</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As I&#039;ve said, I don&#039;t really see this as core to Mendeley&#039;s functionality and strength as a product.  Which is why I question why it needs to be in there at all, considering the liabilities issues it raises and the potential for abuse.  If Mendeley&#039;s business model is indeed planned to be the selling of statistics to libraries and publishers, dropping this minor bit of functionality might go a long way toward winning their business (as noted in the article how Scribd&#039;s efforts have been important).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I&#8217;ve said, I don&#8217;t really see this as core to Mendeley&#8217;s functionality and strength as a product.  Which is why I question why it needs to be in there at all, considering the liabilities issues it raises and the potential for abuse.  If Mendeley&#8217;s business model is indeed planned to be the selling of statistics to libraries and publishers, dropping this minor bit of functionality might go a long way toward winning their business (as noted in the article how Scribd&#8217;s efforts have been important).</p>
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